Topics about meetups

[jkonecki]

I've just heard (http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Cloud+Cover/Episode-160-Event-Hubs-with-Elio-Damaggio) that Halo is using Azure Event Hub with Orleans. I would like to hear more about Event Hubs and howthe integration with Orleans is done.

[jkonecki]

I would like to hear @yevhen talk about his Orleans.Bus project and Orleans patterns / best practices.

[jkonecki]

Another topic idea: a general questions and answers meeting with people who are running Orleans in production to talk about tips, issues and gotchas they've encountered.

[richorama]

Awesome.

I'd be really interested to hear about:

1. The roadmap for Orleans, and what the team have planned.
2. How can the community help and contribute?
3. Failure modes in Orleans, and what to expect (i.e. network partitions, failed nodes).
4. How to adjust the configuration for different requirements (i.e. retry logic, membership and node timeouts etc...)

We've got @yevhen lined up for the next meetup and @ReubenBond some time after that. Perhaps we could squeeze a 'panel discussion' somewhere in-between - or afterwards? If you guys could provide a preferred date and time (preferably by forking the repo and updating the readme) then I'll sort the google hangout stuff.

[yevhen]

Ha, ye. This is possible.
But I'm not sure whether I'll have time able to create presentation.
So if talk + code samples is ok - then why not :)

2014-12-09 16:34 GMT+02:00 Jakub Konecki [email protected]:

I would like to hear @yevhen https://github.com/yevhen talk about his
Orleans.Bus project and Orleans patterns / best practices.

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[richorama]

@yevhen Sounds good to me. Can we pencil you in for a Jan meetup?

[jkonecki]

@yevhen - I would think talk + code samples is enough.

[yevhen]

Ah, it's for January. I was thinking that will be next week =)
Then I will have enough time to prepare.
So, can count me in :)

2014-12-09 17:28 GMT+02:00 Richard Astbury [email protected]:

@yevhen https://github.com/yevhen Sounds good to me. Can we pencil you
in for a Jan meetup?

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[richorama]

Sweet!

[richorama]

Great idea. Perhaps have a panel, and a few questions prepared?

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jakub Konecki" [email protected]
Sent: ‎22/‎12/‎2014 12:15
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Richard Astbury" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

Another topic idea: a general questions and answers meeting with people who are running Orleans in production to talk about tips, issues and gotchas they've encountered.
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[jkonecki]

I already have have a bunch of questions - just need someone to answer them
;-)

On Mon, 22 Dec 2014 20:15 Richard Astbury [email protected] wrote:

Great idea. Perhaps have a panel, and a few questions prepared?

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jakub Konecki" [email protected]
Sent: ‎22/‎12/‎2014 12:15
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Richard Astbury" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

Another topic idea: a general questions and answers meeting with people
who are running Orleans in production to talk about tips, issues and
gotchas they've encountered.
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[yevhen]

What about inviting Orleans' authors? Sergey, Gabi, Niclaus.
This might be interesting. We can have Q&A session then :)

22 дек. 2014, в 22:52, Jakub Konecki [email protected] написал(а):

I already have have a bunch of questions - just need someone to answer them
;-)

On Mon, 22 Dec 2014 20:15 Richard Astbury [email protected] wrote:

Great idea. Perhaps have a panel, and a few questions prepared?

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jakub Konecki" [email protected]
Sent: ‎22/‎12/‎2014 12:15
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Richard Astbury" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

Another topic idea: a general questions and answers meeting with people
who are running Orleans in production to talk about tips, issues and
gotchas they've encountered.
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[jkonecki]

That would be great!

On Tue, 23 Dec 2014 04:47 Yevhen Bobrov [email protected] wrote:

What about inviting Orleans' authors? Sergey, Gabi, Niclaus.
This might be interesting. We can have Q&A session then :)

22 дек. 2014, в 22:52, Jakub Konecki [email protected]
написал(а):

I already have have a bunch of questions - just need someone to answer
them
;-)

On Mon, 22 Dec 2014 20:15 Richard Astbury [email protected]
wrote:

Great idea. Perhaps have a panel, and a few questions prepared?

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jakub Konecki" [email protected]
Sent: ‎22/‎12/‎2014 12:15
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Richard Astbury" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

Another topic idea: a general questions and answers meeting with
people
who are running Orleans in production to talk about tips, issues and
gotchas they've encountered.
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<
https://github.com/OrleansContrib/meetups/issues/1#issuecomment-67884089>
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[gabikliot]

We can definitely do that.
It is a bit quiet here now in US with all the holiday. We can set this to the beginning of January.
What types of questions people were thinking about?

Gabi Kliot

[gabikliot]

Sounds great. We will coordinate with Sergey and update everyone.

Gabi

[ReubenBond]

I'd very much like to see a discussion from the Orleans team. Everything @richorama mentioned, particularly the roadmap.

[jkonecki]

I concur.

On Tue, 23 Dec 2014 23:23 Reuben Bond [email protected] wrote:

I'd very much like to see a discussion from the Orleans team. Everything
@richorama https://github.com/richorama mentioned, particularly the
roadmap.

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[yevhen]

Hi, guys

The start of January is usually busy here, due to New Year and XMas celebrated on 7th of Jan. It's basically a party period until 14 of Jan :) I'll be on vacation for a few weeks as well, so it's safe to say that I can participate not earlier than end of January - say Jan 26 is more or less real.

Is that ok for everyone? If not - then we can schedule panel with guys from Orleans team first, and then next meetup dedicate to contrib projects.

[sergeybykov]

Should we do the roadmap/Q&A discussion next week? How about Monday late morning PST, so that it's not too late in Europe and not too early in Australia? Will this work for you guys?

[ReubenBond]

Works for me

-----Original Message-----
From: "Sergey Bykov" [email protected]
Sent: ‎08/‎01/‎2015 10:12
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Reuben Bond" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

Should we do the roadmap/Q&A discussion next week? How about Monday late morning PST, so that it's not too late in Europe and not too early in Australia? Will this work for you guys?
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[yevhen]

Ok for me

8 янв. 2015, в 01:14, Reuben Bond [email protected] написал(а):

Works for me

-----Original Message-----
From: "Sergey Bykov" [email protected]
Sent: ‎08/‎01/‎2015 10:12
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Reuben Bond" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

Should we do the roadmap/Q&A discussion next week? How about Monday late morning PST, so that it's not too late in Europe and not too early in Australia? Will this work for you guys?
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[jkonecki]

I should make it as well.

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 23:14 Reuben Bond [email protected] wrote:

Works for me

-----Original Message-----
From: "Sergey Bykov" [email protected]
Sent: ‎08/‎01/‎2015 10:12
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Reuben Bond" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

Should we do the roadmap/Q&A discussion next week? How about Monday late
morning PST, so that it's not too late in Europe and not too early in
Australia? Will this work for you guys?
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[johnazariah]

Yeah that'll work for me!

[richorama]

Great, how about 11am PST, which is 7pm GMT and 6am on Tuesday in Melbourne: http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/?qm=1&lid=8,2158177,2643743&h=8&date=2015-1-12&sln=11-12

[sergeybykov]

Sounds good to me. If it's not too early for AU folks. Should we do it in Google Hangout again? I've never used it before. Am I reading it right that it's limited to 10 concurrent users?

[davidgristwood]

I am away skiing next week - I hope to catch up with folk when I get back...

[sergeybykov]

Oh, I see that Richard already create one. Thanks!

[richorama]

Great. I've set up a hangout, I'll invite you to it later on. 10 is the limit for presenters, the number of viewers is unlimited. I'll also add the folks contributing on this thread as presenters.

@david enjoy the skiing!

-----Original Message-----
From: "davidgristwood" [email protected]
Sent: ‎08/‎01/‎2015 15:22
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Richard Astbury" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

I am away skiing next week - I hope to catch up with folk when I get back...
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[sergeybykov]

Great. That should be plenty. :-)

[richorama]

You (should) be able to join the hangout as a presenter using this link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfbH6alRA_M7xLFZ5i9Lj5RNiMjrgziNftchl6cOKCJTq4hHA

[sergeybykov]

Yes, I can get in. Thanks!

[richorama]

I'd like to hear a talk on the new streaming grain. Any volunteers?

@yevhen have you got a date for your talk, or shall I press on with something else first?

[sergeybykov]

@richorama Do you mean the streaming functionality/APIs?

[richorama]

@sergeybykov correct.

[sergeybykov]

We could do an intro to the streaming functionality in the next meetup after @yevhen's. Docs should also be available by then.

[richorama]

that would be great!

[sergeybykov]

In about a month after @Evhen's talk, which we still don't have a date set for?

[yevhen]

Hey, guys!

Sorry for being silent for so long. Can hardly find spare time to work on prezi (with all that pre-war situation in my country). I'm dedicating any free time I can find for work on uniform API for Orleans. Basically, it's done. Any further polish will probably be better handled by community.

I'll try to find some time next week and get back to you.

Sorry,
Yevhen

[yevhen]

What about Friday, 6 of March?

[richorama]

Sounds good to me! Same time (19:00 UTC)?

-----Original Message-----
From: "Yevhen Bobrov" [email protected]
Sent: ‎18/‎02/‎2015 20:38
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Richard Astbury" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

What about Friday, 6 of March?
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[davidgristwood]

cool!

meanwhile, still interested to know about Azure Event Hub with Orleans

[sergeybykov]

@davidgristwood, why did you close this issue? :-) I thought it was meant to stay open for future meetups.

[richorama]

I'm assuming David did this by accident

[davidgristwood]

ooops hit wrong button - sorry

[yevhen]

@richorama

Sounds good to me! Same time (19:00 UTC)?

Ok for me

[richorama]

Link to get into the hangout (in 5 minutes): https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYeOyeir0H7veQEzMFzdTZCPDnyP6iyPZwCO2QJyJ-yvZxrUrw

[yevhen]

Slides https://t.co/arfhU8njAj
Discussion dotnet/orleans#42

2015-03-06 20:53 GMT+02:00 Richard Astbury [email protected]:

Link to get into the hangout (in 5 minutes):
https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYeOyeir0H7veQEzMFzdTZCPDnyP6iyPZwCO2QJyJ-yvZxrUrw

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[yevhen]

Link to repo https://github.com/yevhen/Orleankka
Nuget https://www.nuget.org/packages/Orleankka

We'll introduce it next week.
Also update nuget package with the recent developments.

[ReubenBond]

Thanks, @yevhen - sorry I didn't make it :( Reading through it all now

[yevhen]

@ReubenBond no problem The video is on youtube already. Might be better than silent slides. Also, discussion at the end was valuable. Didn't have time to present the project. Maybe next meetup :)

[ReubenBond]

Very interesting, @yevhen. You lose compile-time type safety, though - doesn't that bother you? What about deriving your grain contract from multiple IEventHandler<TEvent> interfaces - one for each event - instead of using object and dynamic. You get to keep type safety and don't suffer the runtime penalty of dynamic (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13193799/performance-cost-of-using-dynamic-typing-in-net).

[yevhen]

@ReubenBond

You lose compile-time type safety, though - doesn't that bother you?

Not at all. I do exhaustive unit testing :)
Even if you don't - it wasn't such a big problem before.

Akka.Net does a similar thing with its TypedActor base class and IHandles<T> interface. But it's only for invocation side. The point here was that there is no need to create a dedicated grain contract interface, since the set of messages (along with exceptions) which grain could process/raise, fully defines it's public interface (contract).

[johnazariah]

hahah - I think Yehven meant to say "Yes, I do lose compile-time type
safety, but I cover for it with unit testing" :)

I raised this as a comment as well - and I think Yehven agreed that the F#
DU model has stronger compile-time guarantees :)

On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Yevhen Bobrov [email protected]
wrote:

@ReubenBond https://github.com/ReubenBond

You lose compile-time type safety, though - doesn't that bother you?

Not at all. I do exhaustive unit testing :)
Even if you don't - it wasn't such a big problem before.

Akka does a similar thing with its TypedActor base class and `IHandles'
interface. But it's only for invocation side. The point here was that there
is no need to create a dedicated grain contract interface, since the set of
messages (along with exceptions) which grain could process/raise, fully
defines it's public interface (contract).

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• John

John Azariah | Microsoft Azure MVP
https://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/mvp/John%20Azariah-5000463

m *[phone]
*e [email protected]
t @johnazariah http://twitter.com/johnazariah

[yevhen]

@ReubenBond

You get to keep type safety and don't suffer the runtime penalty of dynamic (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13193799/performance-cost-of-using-dynamic-typing-in-net)

That was just an example. Something simple. just to showcase the concept. In fact, I don't use dynamic much but rather complied lambda expressions, which is pretty close to a direct method call.

Also, the information in this SO post is outdated. dynamic was highly optimized in recent versions of .NET framework (same as Activator.CreateInstance) so it's usually only slow on a first call and then all further invocations are incredibly fast.

[yevhen]

@johnazariah

hahah - I think Yehven meant to say "Yes, I do lose compile-time type safety, but I cover for it with unit testing" :)

Indeed :)

[ReubenBond]

That's fair enough, Yehven. I guess I like the discoverability which static typing gives me, letting me autocomplete my way around.

[yevhen]

@ReubenBond

I guess I like the discoverability which static typing gives me, letting me autocomplete my way around

Is that the only thing that might stop you from trying this approach (message passing). Compared to all other advantages that you might get when using it? :)

How many messages per actor type you now have, so that the absence of auto-discoverability is a real issue?

[yevhen]

Also, I can show you the trick how to make auto-discoverability possible with message passing. It requires creating an additional extension method for uniform interface and some trivial inheritance modeling skills :)

It's basically just a way to represent DUs in C# ...

[yevhen]

@johnazariah

I raised this as a comment as well - and I think Yehven agreed that the F# DU model has stronger compile-time guarantees :)

Yes, this approach (message passing) looks really sleek in F#. Example from my PoC https://github.com/yevhen/Orleankka/blob/master/Source/FSharp.Demo/Shop.fs

That should change with C#7 when record types and pattern matching will be introduced

[ReubenBond]

I've used this approach before (in Akka & in one of my early Orleans projects). Message passing is great, but I prefer explicit contracts - Orleans uses message passing under the hood, anyway.

If I were to go down this route, I would likely use this approach:

public interface IMyGrain : IGrain, IHandleEvent<EventOne>, IHandleEvent<EventTwo>{}

Where IHandleEvent is just

public interface IHandleEvent<T>
{
    Task Handle(T @event);
}

[yevhen]

@ReubenBond
Yes, unfortunately it's not quite the same. That will make an interface non-uniform and you will lose a higher-order function, through which each and every message will be delivered to a grain. And it is the most important thing here.

But if you don't need the power that such a higher-order receive function could give, then even the current Orleans' method-based approach will be fine.

[yevhen]

And all of this is problematic only due to C# FP immaturity. With F# - message passing is superior :)

[ReubenBond]

Why would you lose the ability to use higher-order functions? Instead of object, my functions operate on TEvent. Do you have an example? I'm not saying C#'s type system is particularly robust, but it's robust enough for most cases.

[yevhen]

Because Orleans will dispatch TEvent directly to a concrete handler, the one that has Handle(TEvent e) signature, and not to the Handle(object e) catch-all function.

[johnazariah]

Hey I'm loving what I'm seeing of Orleankka! Can I start using it? :D

[yevhen]

@johnazariah sure :)
I'll be updating Nuget package next week with recent developments.
It should be completely on-par with all of the features of native Orelans API.

What is missing is:

1. Automatic deactivation timeouts on per actor-type basis (1 hour of work even for newbie, with uniform interface approach)
2. Fluent configuration for Azure - if you've seen what we did there with simplified configuration DSL, then you know what I'm talking about :)
3. Bring back support for Orleans' native serialization - 5 lines of code, literally ...

Thanks for compliment!

[yevhen]

@johnazariah But these polishing should not introduce any breaking changes. We might change signature of IActorActivator but that should be a single place change for clients, so nothing very serious here

[johnazariah]

Nice - i can't contribute right now, but in 2-3 months, I'll have some time, hopefully!

[yevhen]

@johnazariah cool! We're thinking about moving it to OrleansContrib.

[johnazariah]

OK - that sounds great!

[richorama]

Who is up for speaking at the next meetup? @gabikliot mentioned that he could talk about the streaming API, but @ReubenBond is also lined up for talking about how he's using Orleans at some point? Do you guys have any dates you could provide?

[gabikliot]

If @ReubenBond can do the next one, I think it will be preferred from our side. We will the do one after that and hopefully by that time we will be done with stream provider refactoring, so there will be more to talk about. But if Reuben can't, we can do the next one as well. How about meetup #4 in 3 weeks and meetup #4 a month later?

[ReubenBond]

I can do the next one, whenever you would like to schedule it, at least 2 weeks from now.

I'll talk about "How we use Orleans in FreeBay", if people are interested.
I'll write up some slides and whatnot, but I'll cover AuthN/AuthZ, the admin console, the streaming API, and how the system is modeled.

If people have suggestions for things they would like me to cover, I will incorporate them.

[johnazariah]

+1 for the streaming API

On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Reuben Bond [email protected]
wrote:

I can do the next one, whenever you would like to schedule it, at least 2
weeks from now.

I'll talk about "How we use Orleans in FreeBay", if people are interested.
I'll write up some slides and whatnot, but I'll cover AuthN/AuthZ, the
admin console, the streaming API, and how the system is modeled.

If people have suggestions for things they would like me to cover, I will
incorporate them.

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• John

John Azariah | Microsoft Azure MVP
https://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/mvp/John%20Azariah-5000463

m *[phone]
*e [email protected]
t @johnazariah http://twitter.com/johnazariah

[richorama]

@ReubenBond how does Friday 10th April 19:00 UTC sound?

[ReubenBond]

Looks good to me. Lock it in :) thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: "Richard Astbury" [email protected]
Sent: ‎13/‎03/‎2015 02:27
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Reuben Bond" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

@ReubenBond how does Friday 10th April 19:00 UTC sound?
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[ReubenBond]

Something has come up, could we please shift this by a couple of days? Any time in the week following is suitable for me.

[richorama]

No probs. Do you want to update the readme with a new date? I'm OOF at the moment...

-----Original Message-----
From: "Reuben Bond" [email protected]
Sent: ‎07/‎04/‎2015 11:16
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Richard Astbury" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

Something has come up, could we please shift this by a couple of days? Any time in the week following is suitable for me.
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[ReubenBond]

Updated to Tue, 15th April 2015, 19:00 - 20:00 GMT. Does that work? I don't have the rights to update the Google Hangout event, are you able to update that?

[richorama]

Hmm, I might struggle to make it (I think it's the only day that week which I'm out on the road). Although I'm not essential for being there!

[ReubenBond]

Let's bump it to Wednesday, then :) I've updated the README.

[richorama]

:-)

-----Original Message-----
From: "Reuben Bond" [email protected]
Sent: ‎08/‎04/‎2015 08:48
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Richard Astbury" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

Let's bump it to Wednesday, then :) I've updated the README.
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[richorama]

Link for the current meetup - starting minutes...
https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfV4VTQggg4M1DDYLy6ggGhwFvRyAj-tZA9gPrlZFl_Rlolew

[sergeybykov]

We don't have a date set up for next meetup where @gabikliot is going to dive into streaming, do we?

[richorama]

Not yet ;-) do you have have a date Gabi?

-----Original Message-----
From: "Sergey Bykov" [email protected]
Sent: ‎26/‎04/‎2015 21:39
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Richard Astbury" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

We don't have a date set up for next meetup where @gabikliot is going to dive into streaming, do we?
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[gabikliot]

How about 3 weeks from now, May 15th or May 22nd?

[javier-alvarez]

I'm interested and day should work for me

-----Original Message-----
From: "Gabriel Kliot" [email protected]
Sent: ‎28/‎04/‎2015 18:09
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

How about 3 weeks from now, May 15th or May 22nd?
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[richorama]

@gabikliot either date is great.

It would be great if someone else could volunteer to host the meetup, there's a good chance I won't be able to join as I'm moving house (to a house with no internet at the moment) and having a baby (well my wife is - but I need to help apparently).

[sergeybykov]

@richorama Congratulations with the baby!

I've never hosted a Hangout, but if nobody more experienced steps in, I can try to play Richard this time.

[gabikliot]

Indeed, congratulations with the baby Richard!
I think lets pick May 22nd? It will give us enough time to finish the stream providers refactoring we are working on now and present a more coherent story.

[richorama]

Brilliant, let's make it the 22nd, and if Sergey could host, that would be great!

-----Original Message-----
From: "Gabriel Kliot" [email protected]
Sent: ‎01/‎05/‎2015 19:57
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Richard Astbury" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

Indeed, congratulations with the baby Richard!
I think lets pick May 22nd? It will give us enough time to finish the stream providers refactoring we are working on now and present a more coherent story.
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[sergeybykov]

By 22nd I'll beat jetlag and hopefully won't fall asleep at the Hangout wheel. Richard, if there are any instructions I need to know, please send them my way.

[sergeybykov]

19:00 GMT, right?

[richorama]

Any time you like. I normally go for 7pm GMT (well BST at the moment)

-----Original Message-----
From: "Sergey Bykov" [email protected]
Sent: ‎01/‎05/‎2015 20:14
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Richard Astbury" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

19:00 GMT, right?
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[richorama]

I'll write up what I do to organise a meet up.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Sergey Bykov" [email protected]
Sent: ‎01/‎05/‎2015 20:14
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Richard Astbury" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

19:00 GMT, right?
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[javier-alvarez]

Can you send a calendar invite for this?

[richorama]

I think the google hangout creates one.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Javier" [email protected]
Sent: ‎01/‎05/‎2015 22:34
To: "OrleansContrib/meetups" [email protected]
Cc: "Richard Astbury" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [meetups] Topics (#1)

Can you send a calendar invite for this?
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[sergeybykov]

We are going live in 45 minutes at https://plus.google.com/events/crdjm977pqubv81lgdhqruoqal4.

[yevhen]

@sergeybykov crouching ... 😄

[sergeybykov]

@yevhen Beer-o-clock already? ;-)