Convention Rework: Bring Back 1's Dupe Bluff about hanabi.github.io

[Zamiell]

• the Bad Touch Finesse For 1s was changed to UTD precisely because it made things more consistent - bad touches now always make slot 3 play.
• you are arguing that the core UTD algorithm of "only play slot 3 if slot 1 won't work" is violated when applied to the 1's bad touch finesse situation, which is true.
• however, instead of saying that it makes things "less consistent", it is more correct to say that it makes things "more consistent on one axis and less consistent on another axis".
• which axis is more important? my experience has been that less overall mistakes occur in pickup games with the current configuration, which i personally value higher than number of strategic options on hand.

Forcing rank and color to both get the same response

currently, we can use both rank and color for both UTD and UDD.
thus, the argument of "i am unnecessarily hamstringed" seems surprising.
would you make the same argument for the normal case of UTD/UDD?
meaning that you think that its optimal to have two separate behaviors assigned to touching trash/dupes depending on rank/color?
i suspect no, which makes me not care as much about the 1's case, since I find value in the (current) symmetry between 1s and everything else

[argothiel]

If we allow it for 1s, why not allow it for other ranks, whenever the Trash Bluff on that number would be possible? Anyway, I think it's too much mental load. I like the simple distinction: slot 1 = all trash; slot 3 = focus trash/dupe.

[pianoblook]

If we allow it for 1s, why not allow it for other ranks, whenever the Trash Bluff on that number would be possible?

Well sometimes that just wouldn't work logically, since Cathy would just assume the focus was a good, 1-away card.

But if you mean in situations where all of that rank is playable - e.g. a 3s clue when all the 2s are down - then yes I agree, slot 1 would be enough, and will resolve itself as soon as one copy gets discarded.

Stuff like that used to be a thing, too: #62 #140

[Zamiell]

yes, those moves predated UDD, and then they were deleted after UDD was implemented

[Zamiell]

i think the main takeaway of this issue is that different players find different things more intuitive.
i am reminded of this: https://github.com/hanabi/hanabi.github.io/blob/main/misc/convention-styles.md

[Zamiell]

looks like there is not enough support yet to undo the UDD changes

[Zamiell]

/deny

[conventions-bot]

• Some time has passed since this issue was opened and the group appears to have reached a consensus.
• ❌ This change will not be integrated into the official reference document.
• This issue will now be closed. If you feel this was an error, feel free to continue the discussion and a moderator will re-open the issue.

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