Refreshment makes signs unusable (except for Aard) about tw3-resources-perks-overhaul

[Aelto]

I decreased the adrenaline generation from igni intensity by 25%, we will see if it is enough to balance the perk.

From what you say, i see you're choosing not to invest into any of the DPS perks in order to stay at full adrenaline and avoid the negative effects from it. But at the same time you lose the vanilla effects of the DPS perks so we could say it's the same in the end i suppose.

Though the way you build your perk tree brings an issue in how i designed RPO, if you want to avoid the negative effects RPO adds to its perks, you have no way to consume that extra adrenaline you get. I like your suggestion of replacing the stamina cost of Rend and Whirl with an adrenaline cost. It would make them feel like actual skills you must charge before using them, and at the same time it would bring a new way to consume the adrenaline.

[Aelto]

Hello,

I assume it is not a bug report but rather a balance issue, am i correct? If it is in fact a balance issue can you confirm it so that i can focus of the core of your problem?

The description of skill being the following:

When at maximum adrenaline, consuming stamina restores health. The lower the stamina the higher the heal. Also increases all stamina cost by 50%

If you set the the stamina cost of signs to 100% of your bar this will indeed make it impossible to cast signs. It is an oversight from my side, i should probably cap it at 100% so that nothing is impossible to cast.

Though now that i think about the perk and the effect RPO adds to them i think the cost increase could probably be smoother than a hard 50%.

[Johannes5]

I see it as a bug.
Cant use any signs (except Aard) when Refreshment is equipped even at full stamina.
Never tweaked any settings.

I just reinstalled RPO - issue remains.

[Johannes5]

Another bug:
this wasn't an issue before, but 'Igni Intensity' doesn't have it's RPO bonus anymore.(although the description is there).
I used to be showered with Adrenaline by this skill. I actually thought it was overpowered.
But now I want it again and I'm not getting any adrenaline on stamina refills.

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before sending this comment, I went into the game again and did some experiments with different save-games and different skills. I figured out, that - for the Igni Intensity Adrenaline generator to work - I have to have the skill "Active Shield" equipped.

[Johannes5]

It's relevant to note, that I also use Redux.

And that - when Quen is active (circling around Geralt) - no stamina is regenerated.

The Active Shield skill RPO description is:
"Active Shield (quen alt) adds: While Quen is active resources regeneration and consumption are removed (except for signs) ..."
But I can use neither signs, nor Rend. because there is no stamina to consume.

I also find this line confusing:
"...Attacking while Quen is up reduces the shield's health by 40% to 12% at Active Shield level 3."
what shield health? I get hit -> Quen is gone
That's how it has always been.

[Johannes5]

And another bug:
In the alchemy branch in the character menu, only Refreshment has an RPO paragraoh in the description.
And in the DPS branch, only Strength Training and Muscle Memory.
Fleet footed for example doesn't inform about using adrenaline instead of stamina.

Speaking of Fleet Footed:
Could you explain the rationale behind the perk change?
Dodging barely costs any stamina thanks to RPO.
So where's the benefit in making it use up Adrenaline?
Fleet footed is supposed to motivate you to dodge more not less.
Combined with Igni Intensity - which makes lots of dodging build up Adrenaline very fast - it's even more counterproductive to be have Fleet Footed equipped.
On the flip side - it balances out the overpowered Igni Intensity.

Maybe consider combining both mechanics into one. Meaning: "when reaching 100% stamina, gain a burst of adrenaline
" as part of the Fleet Footed perk. (it doesn't fit thematically to Igni anyway)

[Aelto]

Could you explain the rationale behind the perk change?

Adrenaline with RPO is a resource that is meant to be consumed. If you invest in the red tree you'll notice a lot of perks have downside effects related to storing adrenaline. Fleet footed like it is currently is actually a great way for you to spend the adrenaline when you want to. Store up adrenaline while fighting, but when it is time to be defensive you can consume the adrenaline to lose its side effects.

The way i designed the perks with RPO was to encourage a varied playstyle, but i tried to achieve that without locking you out of your usual way of playing. RPO isn't against fast attacks and dodges spam, but it adds new ways to be more efficient. These new ways should be much more powerful that you wlil naturally use them instead.

I also made the calulations a bit more complex so that you can play without looking at the HUD every second, in theory you should be able to learn the flow of combat with RPO so that you can fight without ever looking at your adrenaline or stamina. These resources vary so much it would be pointless to look at them anyway. For example:

• Low adrenaline means it is time for free heavy attacks since you won't lose anything. With fleet footed it means that after a dodge, you can use an heavy attack for free.
• High adrenaline is time for a quick burst followed by an action that consumes your stamina
• Using fast attacks with the Igni intensity perk is an effective way to store adrenaline
• The general tree perk "Rage management" is a great way to use signs for free after a few fast attacks since it allows you to consume your adrenaline

All these little things, once combined, create a varied combat system. Every action you do boosts another action, this means you are encouraged to alternate between them for bigger impact.

Adrenaline is great when you want to deal damage, it gives a % bonus damage, as well as an attack speed increase and it can also be consumed for free attacks/signs. But at the same time it increases the damage you take and the overall stamina consumption.

Of course fleet footed now allows you to spam the dodges for free, but it would stop you from gaining any adrenaline, and with it the great damage boost. If you alternate the dodges with the attacks your adrenaline should stay at a relatively high level since you also have easy access to this resource thanks to the other perks.

If there are cases where you do not want to be hit but you wish to keep your adrenaline, you can also use signs. A well timed active shield or an Aard sign to stagger the enemy is a great way to achieve this.

I also find this line confusing:
"...Attacking while Quen is up reduces the shield's health by 40% to 12% at Active Shield level 3."
what shield health? I get hit -> Quen is gone

Yes, Quen in vanilla blocks the next hit. But the shield has health and when it reaches 0 the shield vanishes (which matters when you're burning or poisoned i think). So if you consume 40% of the shield's health every time you attack, after 3 attacks your shield will break without receiving any hit.

Maybe consider combining both mechanics into one. Meaning: "when reaching 100% stamina, gain a burst of adrenaline
" as part of the Fleet Footed perk. (it doesn't fit thematically to Igni anyway)

RPO follows this idea:

• The red tree gives ways to consume resources while you fight
• The blue tree gives ways to generate resources
• The green tree adds effects that play well with the other trees. The exception is the fixative perk to allow tank builds to save some adrenaline while encouraging a slower playstyle with heavy attacks.

I felt like Igni being about adrenaline generation fit thematically. Fire equals rage, if you see what i mean :) And i fear fleet footed would be too strong if it allowed you to gain stamina while playing defensive. FF makes you almost unkillable and if it allowed you to generate adrenaline on top of that it would be near broken don't you think?

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As for the bugs you reported, i will look into them! Though i clearly remember fixing the issue with the missing descriptions in the green tree. Now i wonder if i ever released it... Note that if Redux changes the descriptions of the perks, you won't see the RPO descriptions since it will display the Redux ones instead.

I also wonder if most of your issues come from internal changes made by Redux. Most of them are related to resources generation/consumption and i don't think i could have missed bugs like these during my tests. I'll report back once i have access to my gaming computer again (in a week or so) !

[Aelto]

I confirm i found the igni intensity bug you mentioned. It is now fixed and will use the Igni intensity level rather than the Active shield level.

"Active Shield (quen alt) adds: While Quen is active resources regeneration and consumption are removed (except for signs) ..."
But I can use neither signs, nor Rend. because there is no stamina to consume.

This is intended, while quen is active you basically enter a free dodge and free attacks state but using signs become impossible unless you have Rage Management and enough adrenaline. But i must say i am not pleased with the current state of this perk and will probably update it, last time i played it felt more constraining and it goes against RPO's design not to stop you from playing in a specific way.

[Johannes5]

glad you found the Quen bug and thanks for the explanations.

I just think that Igni Intensity is too powerful.
I'm currently lvl 21 (and thanks to Redux I can invest freely in all perks since I got enough shrines. Because in Redux, every 6 new discovered shrines give you access to a new Tier of skills on all 3 branches).

From the DPS branch I currently have:
Undying, Razer Focus, and Rend
(and from the Alchemy Branch I have Killing Spree and Hunting Instinct equipped which makes it highly beneficial to have full Adrenaline. But even without this motivation to keep adrenaline high:)
-> investing in Fleet Footed doesn't really benefit me. Dodges are practically free anyway because RPO reduces the dodge stamina cost and the regen delay.
I also don't think I would be stronger after Strength Training and Muscle Memory.
They might make the gameplay more interesting and balance out all the Igni adrenaline - but when you go into the character menu and decide what combination of skills to choose - you want to find a combination that you think gives you an edge.
Especially, when you play on a higher difficulty. That's basically why I reinstalled RPO - because I couldn't beat Speartip the sleeping giant :D and I wanted more adrenaline.

But I'll replace Undying with another adrenaline-consuming skill for balance.
I would actually prefer it if Whirl and rend were consuming adrenaline.

[Johannes5]

Since you're experienced with W3 script modding:
I wonder if it's difficult/possible to create a completely new buff.
Have you ever thought about how that could be done?

For context:
About a week ago I created a mod myself:
https://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/6513

And on Saturday I created a similar mod named "School of The Mongoose" (since they are a lot like Witchers - fighting snakes and highly resistant to poison).
Basically, it adds the effect of the Doppler Decoction(attacking from behind) to the Blizzard potion (lasting 28s).
Requires one or more of these skills to work: Frenzy / Killing Spree / Fleet Footed
If more than one of those skills is equipped, you also get the Basilisk Decoction (I'm also considering the Wyvern Decoction).
This would motivate you to have a more Mongoose-like (or at least different) fighting style when you pop the Blizzard potion.
Haven't uploaded it yet, because I'm still experimenting with it.
The mod would be more straightforward if I could create a unique buff instead of having to use already existing buffs to modify gameplay.
And I also have another mod idea that would require new buffs.

[Johannes5]

There might be another bug:
The purple glow from the Supercharged Quen sign stayed on indefinitely after the fight.
The only way to make it work again was to go into a fight again and use it again.

To figure out, if this bug is RPO-related, I uninstalled it.
I haven't had this bug since, but I cannot say with certainty that it is gone. We'll see.

[Johannes5]

Update:
Bug isn't gone-> not related to RPO

[Aelto]

This is a bit unrelated to the issue but creating new buffs should require a new entry in the buffs XML file and a new class that extends the buff class or something like that. It is done something I ever did so my description is rather vague but that from what I've seen the last time I checked Ghost Mode it didn't look very complex (GM loves to use buffs for everything, even things that don't need it).

If you wish to use a more code oriented solution then I'd suggest to look at the shared utilities custom cooldowns I made. I made it for my other mod called Consumables on Cooldown. It's a way to create a fake buffs that will be displayed in the buff bar but it has the advantage of being controllable with code for endless possibilities.

If you want to continue the conversation, I'd prefer if you joined the W3 modding discord server where I have a dedicated channel or to make a conversation on GitHub.

[Johannes5]

I was wondering where W3 modders would hang out and where I could ask questions. Thanks for sharing the server!
And I wasn't aware how many other mods you made. Quite impressive! Combat Skills is great!
I was also just motivated to install Random Encounters, which I had planned to do. (Unfortunately with a EAreaName already defined error. I posted about it on your channel. CPB didn't solve it.)

Regarding your fake-cooldown class - How can those buffs get assigned a title and an icon?

---

Part of the reason why I was asking about creating new buffs is a mod idea I would title "Steady Presence":
One gripe I have with the game is that the crossbow doesn't deal enough damage.
And manual aiming is a fun mechanic, but it isn't encouraged.

Wouldn't it be great if successful aimed shots dealt significantly higher damage?
In addition to non-aimed shots also getting more powerful.

This could be tied to the skills Steady Shot and Steady Aim.
I also wanted to tie it to a new buff you get from meditation.
And I also wanted to do something with Sustained Glyphs for Yrden.

But coming to think of it:
Bonus Perks for Steady Shot and Steady Aim would be a great addition to RPO.

Don't you think?

[Aelto]

Let's continue the conversation of the buffs on this dedicated discussion channel i made. So that we can keep this issue focused on RPO. I would suggest to copy/paste your questions here so we have the context.

[Aelto]

Bonus Perks for Steady Shot and Steady Aim would be a great addition to RPO.

I agree. Since RPO is all about varying your playstyle, an incentive to use the crossbow or bombs could be a nice addition. However i think aiming the crossbow/bombs breaks the flow of combat so i'll let you make a mod for that, instead i would prefer something fast paced. Maybe increased damage for the next attack or sign, or even decreased cost for the next action?

[Johannes5]

I think aiming is a fun mechanic, a welcome change of pace(especially for someone who plays with a controller and rarely needs to use the radial menu since signs are directly cast with buttons), and pulling it off successfully should be rewarded.

Perhaps you can agree when you think about fighting Archgriffins.
When they are in the air - your bolts will miss them because they are circling you - you actually need to aim to shoot them to the ground.
Unfortunately, the game doesn't give you any other motivation to aim.
By no means do I want to force players to aim.
But it would be great if it was rewarded - especially when Steady Shot or Aim is equipped.
It would also be a good motivation to start a fight with an aimed shot. But I think especially during a fight - dodging out and trying to pull off a quickscope is pretty cool if you ask me.